Just woke up right now with an Epiphany...it was like something exploding inside my head...you know the feeling....it's like when you're trying to remember a theme song to a show you haven't watched in years..or an author's name...you blow it off...then one day in the shower you start humming it or shout out the name cause you haven't thought of it in so long that it came to you...you probly were thinking of it but didn't know you were...the brain is a funny thing, sometimes.
Well, anyways along those same lines, I've been asking myself a question that I didn't know about till I woke up with an answer...again, weird, but that's how I often do things....I do my best thinking when I'm asleep, in the shower, on the way to work, etc....rarely when I'm concentrating on THE QUESTION...know what I mean? Like right now, I'm thinking of pop tarts and coffee so that I know this rant comes out at least partially cohehrent....lol
The weird thing is that it was so readily apparent and rarely stated, that I completely overlooked it...kinda like hiding the truth in plain sight...lol. Or finding your glasses on your head, or your keys in your hand...well, enough of this....I'll get on with it.
What I always understood but never really examined closely is this...the difference between christians and pagans in today's world. It is simply this...christians mostly view their "god" as a seperate entity...independent from humanity and nature. In contrast, it's been my experience that most pagans I've met when explaining their deity or deities recognized that they're dealing with a symbology for something else...whether it's a need to believe in something as opposed to nothing or a symbol(s) for something that does indeed exist is moot for this rant. But it ussually works like this...pagans often express their deities as an extension or expression of humanity and nature (when I say nature, I mean the universe at large)...to sum it up...christians see god as fact and pagans see god as metaphor.
"Philisophical Mumbo Jumbo", contributed by Nick Milburn stuckinreality@yahoo.com
June 22nd, 2000
This is my trip (my perceptions from observation), I Hope only that you
read this with an open Mind and an Open Heart. The rest is up to
you....
The ego is the direct result of being in a state of ignorance to 'who
it is' that 'you really are'. The ego forms when mental consciousness
asumes that you are only what 'is'. That you are only finite.
Self-realization occurs when your logic brings you to the doorway where
finite Existence ends and the thought that 'you are', in fact, 'what
can be', not 'what is' surfaces. Its at this point that you have two
choices - walk through the door and live a life being that point of
infinite possibility, or turn away and denounce the Truth of your
Divinity.
To understand what it means to be self-actualized is impossible to put
into words, because its not the logic or reason behind self-
actualization that makes a being self-actualized, its the state of
consciousness that they continually 'be' from. Its not their actions,
their words, their thoughts, their ideas, or their intentions that
makes someone self actualized - its the center that they operate from,
their state of mind, or more specifically, their quality of being -
Innocent, Pure, Perfect.
One who isn't Perfect can't comprehend Perfection, One who's never felt
Love can never write a poem about it, One who's never touched God,
really doesn't know what God is. You must experience these things,
these infinite things, in order to truly have any Hope of grasping what
it is they truly are, what it is we truly are.
A state of consciousness uncomprehendable by logic, because it is, in
fact, too good to be true. 'It' is TRUTH and 'It' is GOOD. 'It' is
the platform that allows Goodness and Truth to Exist. The state of
consciousness of a self-actualized person is similar in reality to
this - What 'is' isn't worth identifying with, because everything that
starts must end, and what 'is' is just what has started but hasn't yet
ended. Its not that what 'is' isn't real, its just accepted to be
transitory and hence forth 'ignored'. It is not infinite, which
Existence is, so the only conclusion is that anything transitory isn't
God. So the self-actualized person's state of consciousness slowly and
surely stops indentifying with the transitory, to the point where one
day, I assume, the transitory ceases entirely to be a part of that
being's reality.
You may wonder what I'm talking about when I refer to 'that being's
reality'... reality is an ever changing current of changes in focus.
We focus on either whats happening 'inside' of us, whats
happening 'outside' of us, both, or in the state of Union - neither.
For in the state of Union outside and inside cease to exist as seperate
things, and the focus that used to be on both the outside and the
inside melts into a state where there is nothing to be focused on,
because you realize that you, the real you, are in fact just focus.
When you, the knower, and the object of your focus, the known, come
together and form knowledge... the point right after the realization of
that knowledge is the point of total Peace.
The triad becomes complete and what began ends. Your mind, vibrating
with both total attention on the object and total non-attention on
everything else (intensely high frequency and minimal wavelength)
(intense concentration), suddenly reaches the point where it stops
vibrating at all, and returns to Peace...
Think of a guitar string, plucked once, it makes a sound and slowly
loses its energy in the movement of up and down. Eventually, its
vibrating at such a high frequency that its no longer making a sound,
as it has such low wavelength. Faster and faster, smaller and smaller,
until the point where infinite possibility is once again reached. The
string returns to stillness, ready once again to play another chord.
The cycle completes itself, what was once at rest is once again at
rest... beginning and end are one in the same - stillness. There is no
such thing as beginning and end – THEY ARE THE SAME THING...
The state of consciousness of a self-actualized person is centered on
only the infinite, with an occasional succumbment to temptation
drifting them very temporarily into the realm of the finite. True
Peace becomes the baseline they live from, rather than the goal they
are trying to obtain. Truth becomes the norm, except when faced with
situations in which they are afraid to tell the Truth in fear of being
misunderstood. Such a horrible feeling it is to not be able to show
the Light to those who haven't seen it, such a final hurdle to jump
over on the pathway to Perfection.
So what is God? God is infinite possibility. Its almost the blank
page that us poets write masterpieces on. Its almost the string that
isn't vibrating yet. Its almost the ocean before the wave rises and
falls. Its almost the television with a satelite tv hookup to every
channel in the world. Its almost the Moment, where I can choose to
keep writing this, stop writing this, scratch my ear, think of a girl I
used to know, get a drink of something I've never had before, cook my
favorite meal, make someone smile, or tickle myself pink with wild
music. But God isn't any of these 'things,' and God is all of these
things. For its from infinite possibility that transitory elements
become real, and therefor anything that 'is' must also be anything
that 'could be.' This is the paradox that is so seemingly
uncomprehendable - how can God exist in a world where there is
suffering? Suffering is just one of the possibilities that us poets
have written on this page, it isn't real. There is no suffering in
reality, there is life and death, disease and natural disaster, famine,
pricker bushes, and depression... but none of these things are bad, nor
good... they just are. Bad is incomprehendable in a world without
good, night keeps daytime spinning around in its cycle. Death is
necessary in order to be reborn, rejuvinated in Heavenly Bliss... when
you exist for life in Heavenly Bliss, Death never comes knocking on
your door... Death of your body is nothing but another change.
For this IS Heaven, make no doubts about it. But the same 'this' that
is Heaven is also Hell, for neither can Exist without the other. It is
the female that allows the male to exist, and the male that allows the
female to exist. Both are necessary for the point of infinity to once
again be reached, for life once again to be created.
Don't deny the duality's realness, for that would be ignorant - just
stop worshiping it as Truth. For it is but the Truth for a Moment, the
Truth of Eternity is the reality you are trying to cultivate in
yourself.
Recognize that nothing finite has ever held your interest for an
indefinite amount of time. The only things that truly make us happy
from day to day, from Moment to Moment, are the infinite. The selfless
Love that strangers and best friends alike offer us randomly, the
sunset that molds that smile onto your blank slate face, the genuine
smile a little boy makes when you smile at him, the conversations that
you never want to end... where time ceases to exist and so does your
self. Speaking hours into the night, your ego melting - the Perfection
in side of you unafraid of judgement because you are neither judging
nor being judged. Perfection, yourself, coming to the surface if only
for that one Moment, and lighting your life up forever more.
In order to attain self-actualization, keep in mind the 'you'
that 'you' consider finite will "become" infinite if you only make one
choice - not attach yourselves to the finite. Give up desire for
things to be different than they are. Everything IS Perfect. Give up
anger that things don't go the way you'd like them to... why should
they, you don't let them! You manifest your reality through hands that
are trying to bend the rules your way, instead of hands that know the
rules back and forth, inside out, and that do what they are supposed to
do - BE THE POINT WHERE DUALITY CEASES TO EXIST. Be the person who
gives endless selfless Love to a Reality that wants nothing less and
nothing more. Be Existence's best friend, all of Existence, every nook
and cranny - give "Satan" a hug and ask how he's doing if you ever see
him!
I promise you that if you be Our best friend, then We'll be your best
friend, and we'll spend endless nights talking and dancing and playing
without worry of judgement and without judging, without good and
without bad... in the plane of Existence where ego ceases to exist
because its realized that its just a waste of energy... :)
Stop choosing ANYTHING over what your Heart tells you to do. Listen to
the Perfection inside of you screaming to become the point you
manifest from in everything you do. LET IT.
.. !! Thank you so much for all of your blessings, its Us who allows
each of us to get this much closer to perfection. Give and you shall
recieve, your gifts of nothing more than sincere appreciation and
undivided non-judgemental attention do not go in any way unrewarded...
Universal Law claims it attracts more of the same! We are one in the
same, lets grow together and we will all grow one day to embody
Perfection in the wholeness we're meant to! I wish I could keep
writing forever… but more than anything I just wish I could be with all
of you in Union, in Love, in Peace… for Ever more.
Peace and Joy, Love and Light,
Nick :)
"Consistancy requires that a deity live up to the ethical principles S/He represents", contributed by Meryth
I do not know much about Wiccan theology, e.g. the attitudes the Wiccan Goddess and God are supposed to have toward humanity. However, consistency requires that a deity live up to the ethical principles S/He represents.
Just as it is contradictory for Moses' God to author a Commandment "Thou shalt not commit murder"--and then order the bloodiest campaign of genocide of ancient history, so would it be inconsistent for Wicca's deities to promulgate the Rede, and then set out to boss people around and do nasty things like have them thrown into prison. The "who are we to argue?" comment expresses an implicit belief in an Authority-Not-To-Be-Questioned comparable to the deities of the monotheistic religions, which, judging from most of the posts and information I have read here, is incompatible with Wicca.
My own interest is in Egyptian religion. The Egyptians had a very interesting relationship with their gods. They could revere their awsome power without surrendering their minds or self-esteem to unquestioning Obediance. Much Egyptian magick was intended to enable humans to acquire, even surpass the power of the gods. For example, a favorite spell of mine:
"I have come that I may take possession of my throne and that I may recieve my dignity, for to me belonged all before you came into being, you gods; go down and come upon the hinder parts, for I am a Magician."
--Coffin Text, Spell 261
I think spells like this can be helpful for releasing people from shackles supposedly imposed by deities. Once the person has freed themselves from the "who are we to argue?" mindset, they are able to approach deities more openly, without the baggage of a master/slave Authority relationship, but can see them as guides, as senior partners in magick-working, as friends, or even as archetypal manifestations of the self.
There is great danger in "who are we to argue?" Authority-relationships with deities. The person who takes this approach necessarily takes whatever revelation comes presumably form their deity(ies) to be unquestionable, i.e. dogma. Confronted with someone who doesn't agree, they regard the other person not as someone whose viewpoint should be examined and checked against the facts of Universe, but as a vile infidel. Their thoughts, if not words to this person amount to: "Who are *you* to argue?"
Since their own ideas are Not-To-Be-Questioned, there is no possibility of rational discussion as a means of settling the disagreement, or of agreeing to disagree agreeably. Since the infidel is arguing against Divine Truth, and has no right to do so, they are not merely incorrect, they are morally *evil* in the eyes of the Believer. Since reason and tolerance are ruled out, the only remaining means of dealing with the person is force, psychological or physical. Ayn Rand correctly identified that faith (of the dogmatic, Authority-driven variety) and force are corollaries. Even if the Believer does not wish to be a violent or oppressive person, the logic of the nature of their beliefs drives them toward it even as railroad tracks steer a train regardless of the engineer's wishes. "God commands us to kill witches. Only He knows what is best for us. Who are we to argue?"
Life, health, prosperity to you all!
Meryth
"Faith is an everyday thing", contributed by Sam
Faith is a permanent everyday thing. It will range from total atheist faith in absolutely nothing to the faith that comes from believing in certain spiritual leaders, not the church, but the leaders or cornerstones of the belief. I believe in and follow the words of Ramakrishna, that does not make me a Hindu. I believe and follow the teachings of Christ, that does not make me a christian. I believe in the guidance of Tarot cards, that does not make me a witch. I have faith that something everyday will go my way, even if it is just a decent piece of mail, or a pat on the back, or good food.
"Witchcraft: Evil or Not?", contributed by Meryth
Here's my take on this, starting with the question, "Witchcraft: Evil or Not?" To answer this question, you need to do two things: Define "witchcraft" and define "evil."
I define "witchcraft" as the general practice of magick (the "k" differentiating actual spell and mind-power use from stage illusion). Magick is much like computer programming, in fact I consider it to be computer programming, the programming of your own subconscious mind. A "spell" (including spell-types such as "invocations" "affirmations" and the like) would thus be a kind of program for the brain-computer. Magick, like computer programming, can be used for almost any imaginable purpose, constructive or destructive. Thus, under most ethical systems, "witchcraft" could be good or evil, depending on the purpose for which it is used, much as "science/engineering" or "computer programming" can.
Others may disagree with this interpretation. Some consider "witchcraft" to be more or less synonymous with Wicca, or "the Craft" for which the movie was named. Wicca is a specific religion that includes worship of the Earth, particularly the biosphere (life, and the areas it inhabits) and distinctive doctines such as the Rede and the Threefold Law, as well as the use of magick. However, as most Wiccans will tell you, magick is only a part of Wicca, it is to Wicca what technology is to science. From my admittedly limited knowledge of Wicca, it is possible to be a Wiccan (hold to the religion, worship the Goddess and God) and never cast a single spell or do anything otherwise associated commonly with "witchcraft."
However, as another poster here pointed out (I think it was TaliesinOsiris), there are other religions who practice magick/"witchcraft" that are not Wiccan. Santeria, African tribal religions, Native Americans, Aboriginies, the Ordo Templi Orientis, the Temple of Set, the Crowleyan and LeVayan sects of Satanism, and a considerable number of lesser-known occult magick-practicing religions exist, many of which would employ the term "witchcraft."
It should also be pointed out that many Wiccans make a distinction between "white" and "black" magick, considered good and evil (by them) respectively. Thus a person practicing "black" magick and calling themselves a witch would be considered a non-Wiccan witch even by Wiccans who use "witchcraft" and "Wicca" synonymously.
It could even be argued that Christianity (especially Catholicism) and Judaism (and possibly Islam, though I do not know enough about it) practice a limited degree of witchcraft even as they condemn everyone else. For example, Catholics use involved rituals--candles, incense, chants, etc. to, among other things (they say) transform a wafer of unleavened bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ respectively. Blessing and banishing rituals (even for some Protestant denominations) aren't that different from some Wiccan rituals--using "holy" or "charged" water or oil to anoint the walls and doors of a house and so on to keep "evil spirits" at bay. Catholics also wear charms and amulets--vials of water from Lourdes, splinters (supposedly) of the True Cross, etc.
Protestant faith-healers are not beyond the use of both magic (the stage-illusion variety) and magick. Some even go so far as to say that the words you speak create reality, and that a believer has the power to invoke and (for all practical purposes) command God provided they have enough "faith." They will "charge" items such as cloths with "healing power" and so on. While most of this is IMO a con-game, the notion of charging an object such as a crystal, a wand, a medicine pouch, etc. for healing or other purposes is not foreign to Wicca.
In Judaism, especially the hyper-orthodox brand whose members would literally throw rocks at a Wiccan, the use of various charms and amulets is common. Many Jewish homes place a Mezuza next to the door, a charm bearing Hebrew letters denotiong the words of an invocation of God (the letters and the invocation itself escape me at the moment). They will also wear charms containing miniature scrolls bearing the Shema ("Hear, O Israel, the Lord your God is One") in boxes, worn on the head and the right hand, intended to keep their god in their thoughts and actions.
The monotheistic religions do not condemn witchcraft as evil because of any of the practices involved, but because those practices call on powers *other than* their particular god. They might condemn animal sacrifice (to my knowledge a non-Wiccan practice), even as they worship before the statue (or the concept, in Protestantism) of a bloody, tortured, sacrificed *man.*
Therefore, witchcraft as I've defined it is not evil even to the monotheists--they only consider *everybody else's* magick to be evil. Could it be evil in a more objective sense? This requires an objective definition of good and evil.
Good and evil--for what? By what standard? The only organism we know of that is concerned with good and evil is humanity--leaving aside other proposed beings such as deities, faeries, spirits, extraterrestrials and such because they are not yet *known* i.e. proven to exist, IMO, and even less is known about their nature, or what is "good" or "evil" for their type of being. Animals and plants have an automatic "code of values" determined for them by their survival-mechanisms and conveyed to them via instinct. A fox does not have to choose a "moral" path for its life, or ask itself if pouncing on a baby rabbit is "good or evil."
Humans, unlike other animals survive by the use of their minds. If a human is to survive at all, he or she must acquire the knowledge to make and use tools, and apply that knowledge successfully. Since there is no instinct that automatically makes us build life-enhancing tools rather than, say, nuclear weapons, humans require a conscious code of values to guide their choices. No "instinct" will tell you whether to be a secretary or an astronaut or a dictator, a Wiccan or a Christian. The choice of life-path also requires a code of values to guide it. This code of values is "morality."
Since it is the life of a conscious being such as the human that makes "morality" necessary, the individual human life is IMO the most objective standard for morality. To a somehwhat lesser extent, the life of other non-human organisms is included in this--though killing a rabbit may be "good" for a fox, killing *all* rabbits wouldn't be, though a fox will never be confronted with that choice.
Human life requires that each individual be free to think and act to achieve life and happiness without interference from others, and without interfering with others' equal freedom. To the extent that this freedom is denied, human survival and prosperity is harmed.
To ask whether witchcraft is good or evil is to ask whether or not it enhances or endangers human life and happiness. Since magick used for initiatory coercion or destruction (or plain ol' non-magickal coercion and destruction for that matter) places the user into conflict with the nature of the human being as a volitional, thinking being, the user is really at war with Universe itself, i.e. reality, not to mention all those other people. Using a car contrary to its nature (say, trying to drive it across the Atlantic Ocean) results in destruction for the car and its user. The same is true of those who try to use humans as robots or slaves--as something other than a volitional, thinking being that must be free to survive and flourish long-term. The results of non-magickal coercion are plainly evident in the history of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and every other tyranny, great and small.
Magickal coercion (assuming such is possible) is no different. If magick is an actual projectable force, such as electricity or magnetism, it is almost certainly bound by Newton's 2'nd Law ("For every action, there is an equal and opposite [in direction] reaction.") as are the other known forces in Universe. "You get what you give" and "karma" are common expressions of this in relation to magick.
If magick is something more "biological" in nature, an energetic "seed" of some sort that grows and multiplies in the casting, then multiplicative effects such as the Threefold Law in Wicca (What you do comes back to you times three) are possible. In this theory, a spell would be like a seed of wheat, or a computer program that replicates itself and draws some form of universal energy (e.g. "zero-point" energy in physics) as it spreads out from the caster. The effects would return to the caster multiplied in the same way that a spammer who sends an email to a thousand email boxes may get a *thousand* angry replies in his or her box, and maybe even a mail-bomb, virus or some such--the "spell" was sent as a single email, returned as a thousand.
Thus magickal coercion or initiatory force can be considered evil by the standard of human life. Magick designed to be constructive would then be good, providing it is efficaceous. If it is not efficaceous for any life-enhancing purpose then it is a mere waste of time, a minor evil in terms of the life-time it wastes. IMO even if magick is not a projectable force it can still be life-enhancing when used to program the subconscious mind for self-improvement purposes.
"Combining Wicca and Christianity", by TaliesinOsiris
My best advice on this topic, try not to think of Christianity and Wicca as different things, try to see them as the same. Prepare for the ranting of Osiris.........
To me there is no difference between the Christian God and the Wiccan God and Goddess. They are both a way for us humans to understand what we see as Divine, the force of the Universe that is life.If you step back and don't see them as people, and see them as, what to me they are, you will not feel a particular attachment to either and therefore no conflict between your "faith". Once there is no conflict stopping change, growth can take place. What is God to you is there a real difference when you think of the God & Goddess? What qualities do they hold when you think of them as deities? Now look at them(the Gods) as our Human perception of the Life force of the Universe, see those qualities(you assigned the deities) as our perception of what Life is. With this hopefull change of perception there is no need for conflict, all humans ultimately believe in the same thing. We believe in Life, we worship life, that is IMO(In My Opinion) what the Gods(whether Christian or Wiccan or Whatever) represent....is life. So if you worship a God of any sort you are worshiping life right? Ah.......now look at what aspects of our(human) religions do this.....worship life (to me all aspects of Wicca accomplish this..........but some Christian views also accomplish this). Do you need a further guide to choose how to 'blend' your faiths?...Do you see now how IMO there is no difference, you don't have faiths you have faith, no matter what you believe? IMO the ultimate, proven faith is faith in life. Now, some more ranting.........
How do we connect with the life(no matter what you call it) we believe in? Ourselves, aren't we alive(and therfore the same as the deities, that I call our Human perception of life)? There is the ultimate connection........there is no book you could read that could teach you more than what you already know inside you. Understanding and believing in yourself is the key IMO. You said something about Wicca draws you....exactly because it is confirmation of what you already know and believe in your mind. How nice it is to see proff....(though we really don't need it) written and spoken by these people who call themselves Wiccan or Pagan. We are drawn to what we believe is true, that is why IMO so many Wiccans and Pagans were once Christian. It is the positive life worshiping aspects of religion that draw us, and Christianity(being so mainstream) is usually the first place were we find these aspects.
Why do we leave Christianity? Again, ultimately it leaves us unsatisfied, we know the ultimate truth of the Universe(in our minds, that are beyond body, and are spirit) we can feel there is more (as Christains), but we can't find it (I mean the bible quoting, must be answers to everything in here type) sorry if this offends any this is just my opinion. More ranting.......
Why change religions? Drawn by the aspects of religion that worship life, and now lead by the force of our minds (that I see as our spiritual essense) pushing the promise of something more out there, we turn away (those of us that feel this) from the mainstream, seeing little promise there and begin searching for proff on this planet of what we feel and believe. That is when some find religions like Wicca, and other Pagan and Native earth(life) worshiping religions. Looking at them we can see nothing we disagree with (I couldn't..it is just a matter of perception) so we simply chose one that we feel comfortable with and we feel will help us understand ourselves and in so doing we will understand and connect with the Universal life, that some call God or Goddess or Spirit or Ansestors(or Whatever) and we fufill our ulimate goal. We fufill the quest for knowledge that originally brought us to Christianity, and has thus far lead us here.
I hope this makes all that read it think, but by no means do I wish to offend. Please remember this is only my opinion, you may have a similar or completely different one. This is just my current belief in why we are(those of us who are, there is nothing wronge with those who are not) drawn to Wicca, and Paganism similar belief systems. I post it here so that others may think about what I've written, and reflect on their own beliefs and maybe incorporate some of my ideas. My goal in this life is to further connect with the Universe (through myself) and share the 'knowledge' I gain along the way, so that it might help others, as well as myself.
Blessed Be and Love and Light..
-TaliesinOsiris-
"Using the Bible as a Guide", by Cloie
My faith journey has led me to believe that God's sending Jesus to die for "mortal sin" as the Roman Catholics call it as something pretty drastic, but in a way beautiful - not that I see killing anyone as a good thing. The only thing I think about as far as the crucifixion is concerned, is that God did it out of love. If women can endure labor pains in order to bring forth a child into the world, than the son of God can handle ANYTHING that mere mortals throw at Him.
"Sin" to me is a very strong word. I confess "sins" like being rude or mean to someone who I love and should have treated better. There was one time in church when I almost cried because I heard about how God forgives anything (and I hadn't been a good person to a bunch of people) and it felt like that was being said just for me. I think anyone who is sorry for what he/she does wrong is forgiven by God or whomever he/she believes in.
The part about "female sourcerers" was most likely writen up by a bunch of male chauvanistic pigs. Remember that the old testament was used by the early Jews as law - the pharacies and scribes created "God's laws" for just about everything. The whole thing about not eating pigs or goats or milk and meat together was because of diseases that existed in those animals at the time. There was NOTHING about those things that was "sacreligous" according to God.
I hope this clears things up... I don't want to unsult the Bible or anything in it, but I believe more in using the Bible as a guide - not a history book.
"Opinions and Questions", by Kevin
"Why is God growing up?"
I asked this question myself, long ago. I am a "used to be Catholic" too. Why does it seem like God is slowly growing up over time, and finally in the New Testament seems more like an adult? When I asked this, I was told that it was not God who was changing, but peoples' perceptions. Life a LONG time ago in early biblical era was pretty harsh, and so they believed in the reality of a harsh, demanding diety. It fit the way they saw the world. Later, with more order, a more caring and compassionate diety was needed, but with some of the old characteristics still lurking. Now, in today's "fluffy" world (by comparison to 6000 yrs ago!), christian diety is even more removed from that Old Testament God.
What is sin? And why don't Wiccans have them?
Sin is not just a wrong-doing - it is a stack of "bad credit" in the eyes of your diety. Christians have the wonderful easy way to clean the slate - they go see a priest, tell them what they did, and walk away with a few "Hail Marys" for homework and a clear conscience. Because Wicca does not carry the concept of sin and reconciliation, we have a somewhat harder road to travel. If a Wiccan does something wrong, they have to own up. They must accept Responsibility, and then take corrective action to restore whatever balance they undid with their wrong action. This is one of the key differences between Wicca and Christianity, one of the hardest for ex-christians to grasp (in my experience teaching) and one of the hardest to live by.
Mean Old Gods
And BTW, christians are not the only ones with nasty dieties lurking in their prehistory. Our pagan ancestors practiced all kinds of malicious things, like beheading ones enemies and keeping the heads around... Various forms of divination one would find the local authorities questioning you (heck, locking you up!) for now... Not to mention the fact that many of us worship incarnations of the Goddess and God in the aspects of old dieties. One does not have to read much Greek mythology to find out that most of their gods were NOT nice beings. In fact, they were often dispicable. Same goes for most EVERY early religion. They all tended to be mean to one's enemies (the better to scare your foes), and nasty if they were not made happy by one's followers (the better for priest-types to have some control and power). I think we can all agree that HUMANKIND as a whole has done a lot of growing up when it comes to our perception of divinity. Yes, not everyone has, but we're making progress.
Christian Wicca
Well, I knew it was going to show up eventually. Really. I did . :) We've crammed the northern-European root ideas of Wicca into everything else we can, why not Christianity? Think about it, we have: Celtic Wicca, Sax Wicca, Asatru (norse) Wicca, Santerian Wicca, Egyptian Wicca, Native American Wicca, Faerie Wicca, Greek Wicca, Roman Wicca, Dianic Wicca, 16+ varieties of old English Wicca (Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Old Order, etc.)... The list goes on and on and on. Not to mention that odd ball "Eclectic Wicca" (which is pretty much where I am now :) that borrows bits from everywhere. I have so far resisted any temptations to write ritual drawing down Loki and Hecate at the same time, though (Gulp!). So if you look at Christianity as simply another mythology, then it is certainly possible to merge the two. Not sure exactly how, but it could be done, I guess...
My personal view on this is that it is a dilution of the religion, and an insult to the people we "borrow" from. Borrowing old gods whose faiths are long gone is one thing, and fairly accepted. Borrowing from modern religions is a bit different. I somehow don't think they'd be amused.
"Pagans and Christianity", By Meryth
I can understand and respect your desire for some sort of "common ground" between Christianity and Wicca/Paganism. Pagans have historically been very tolerant of other people's deities as compared with the monotheistic faiths. Between Pagans, this religious tolerance made "holy wars" virtually nonexistent. A conquering king would have himself crowned according to the conquered country's customs, and merge the pantheon of his nation with theirs.
But in relation to monotheism, it works against the Pagans. The Pagans (generally) offer toleration to the monotheists and try to find a slot in their pantheon for their god. But monotheism, by definition, cannot tolerate any other gods. Thus the monotheists can take advantage of Pagan toleration to gather their strength until they can sieze the apparatus of the state and smash the Pagans.
The monotheists take Pagan toleration as a sanction, "for even the heathens accept that God is good, and Christ an exemplar, even as they rebel against Him." In other words, the fact that Pagans will try to absorb elements of the monotheistic faith assures the Christians that the goodness of their god, Christ, etc. is beyond question, even to those who reject him--while for their part, they consider the Pagan deities to be demons. It sanctions the idea that the Christian god is indeed universal, beloved of Pagans as well as Christians, while the Pagan gods are not, being reviled as evil by Christians and their god.
The arguments about the fallibility of the Bible, while true, miss the essential point: that Christianity is *evil* to the extent that it is consistently practiced. The essential doctrine of Judeo-Christian-Islamic monotheism is that there is a single legitimate god whose authority must be accepted without question, or terrible punishments await. That the Bible contains the occasional loving sentiment does not alter this anymore than films of Hitler smiling and bouncing children on his knee alter his nature or that of Nazism. Wading through Mein Kampf, one might be able to find a rare accurate or noble statement. To argue that the rest was written while Hitler was "in a bad mood" or sick, or that it was badly translated, while claiming any good parts as a "guide"--and trying to find "common ground" between the politics of liberty and Nazism would only cast you in the mold of the hypocrite while giving the more consistent Nazis the appearance of your agreement.
To illustrate, let me don my old Fundamentalist hat:
"Even Christ's enemies are unable to deny His centrality. Even as
they rebel against Him, they seek to recruit Him to their side by putting
their words in His mouth. In their hearts they know He exists and that He is God--otherwise they could dismiss Him instead of trying to fit Him into their religion. The fact that they still need and want Him in their lives, if on their own terms, proves that He is drawing all men to Him. 'For when the Son of Man is lifted up, He will draw all men to Him.' They say that Christianity is good and noble, that they just want to reform it by obliterating its doctrines. We know that Christianity, like any other belief system *is* its doctrines.
"How can they condemn those of us who believe in and live Christianity as evil or extremist, yet seek to wear the moral cloak of Christianity
themselves? If Christianity is good, then it must also be true. If it is not true, how can it be good? You accept the high ethical fruit of Christianity, but reject the tree, its teachings. Jesus said, a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."
Ad infinitum, ad nauseum. The attempt to merge Christianity and Paganism is appeasement on the part of the Pagans. It didn't work in ancient Rome, it didn't work with Hitler, and it won't work with today's Christians.
But what about the open, tolerant Christians, who accept Pagans, and even allow Tarot readings and the like in their churches? In order for a "Christian" to welcome and embrace Pagans in this way, they must accept Pagan deities as being equal with their own, and accept practices (magick, divination, etc.) their "guide" (the Bible) explicitly condemns and attatches the death-penalty to. Such people were also incinerated in the Burning Times--they were called "heretics."
In order to offer acceptance to Pagans (and I mean real acceptance, not temporary niceness to get a chance to "preach the gospel"), they have to give up the defining ideas of Christianity: monotheism and the necessity of "atonement" through the death of Jesus to escape fiery torture in Hell. People who do this are Christian in name only, and as likely to face persecution should Christians ever have full control of government.
Such "name-only Christians" are comparable to Typhoid Marys who carry a disease without themselves being afflicted by it. So long as they revere the Bible while picking out the handful of benevolent passages and trying to argue and rationalize around the rest, they perpetuate the notion that the Bible is "the Good Book," that it contains high moral teachings, and that it is in some vague sense divinely inspired. This allows the evil therein to escape the full condemnation it deserves. "Those bad parts were written by a bunch of pigs or badly translated, so ignore them--but we can follow parts we like, written by those same pigs and terrible translators as a guide for our lives" This insures that another generation will be exposed to the ideas of those pigs and their translators, and not all of them will ignore the parts we don't like.
This does not mean that we should launch a Holy "Pentacleade" (as opposed to "Crusade") of our own and attack everyone who wears a cross around their neck. Most individual Christians don't practice Christianity consistently enough to "not suffer a witch to live." Many modern American and Western European "Christians" are of the "name-only" variety, to the unending chagrin of Fundamentalist pastors. It does mean, IMO that we should recognize within ourselves the inherent intolerance of monotheistic belief manifest in religious persecution by all four monotheistic religions, Atenism (the religion of Pharaoh Akhenaten), Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, and that Christianity on the level of its fundamental ideas is *evil* because it worships tyrannical, sadistic Authority as the ultimate metaphysical principle. While it is true that every Christian is not evil--most of the people who sieg-heiled at Hitler rallies would never think of killing their Jewish neighbors themselves, and were nice, "civilized" people in their everyday lives too--they hold and revere ideas that *are.*
If we ever want to be out from under the shadow of the blood-soaked Cross, we must challenge the fake halo of goodness the bloodthirsty, hell-fire stoking tyrant Yahweh/Christ hides behind so that otherwise benevolent and accepting people will confront and reject the evil instead of teaching it to their children as the good. So long as the Bible is revered as "the Good Book" the evil within it can be reborn whenever someone reads it with the assumption that its contents are "good."
Christianity is based on a shallow deception, that a god whose method of dealing with people is commands backed by violence and torture is good and loving. It's the same kind of emotional manipulation wife-beaters and child-abusers use, loudly proclaiming their love between beatings. By grasping at the occasional "God is love" statements and evading the evil root of tyrant-worship, Pagans (and atheists or anyone else who upholds the Bible or Jesus as good while glossing over most of what they actually say) help the cause of their destroyers. Those destroyers, when they act, will be acting under the cloak of goodness the "collaborator" Pagans, atheists, etc. helped them create.
Yes, Christians, Nazis, Communists and the followers of any belief system should be free to believe as they wish and present their ideas without censorship, just as we should, no matter how abhorrent we may find their ideas to be. But if we know an idea to be evil and can prove it, we shouldn't pretend otherwise in hopes of getting along with those who believe it. We have no mission to convert the world, but when a debate/discussion scenario arises, we should, IMO confront Christians (especially the nice, tolerant, benevolent kind) with the evil at the root of their religion. Tear away the cloak of goodness, love and mercy. Most people are too good to openly worship evil and savagery. Once the savagery is shown to be not some translator's mistake, or a non-essential musing of the Biblical writers, but the defining attribute of Christianity, they will, I think, reject it and go in search of something more consistent with their natural human benevolence.
Life, health, and prosperity
Meryth
"Ignorantly Blind", contributed by Joel Serrano ajaloko@webtv.net
Inbred emotions in humans are the worst kind. These emotions you get from family or friends, whose ideals and thoughts you take blindly without a second thought. They think one thing, you think another, most times the same in belief. This is one way of forgetting to be yourself.
I've said before that no one anywhere is perfect. Some of us have beauty outside, while others have beauty inside. Some of us are not intelligent enough, while others are too intelligent. Ignorantly, we sometimes believe we are better than someone else. That we possess beauty, while others are as ugly as sin, be it inside or out. What we do is look at other humans with veiled eyes. We pretend to see something without actually seeing what is there.
If you see with your eyes only, the world can be a sullen place with angry, evil, or mundane people. It's not a view to cherish . We lead our lives thinking this is appropriate, when, in actuality, it's a burden that causes us to panic and behave in irrational and childish ways. If we see with only our eyes, then we are missing the best part of the object. The inside.
Seeing life through veiled eyes has caused many a men and women and children to judge others that are not meant to be judged in the first place. Who are we to judge what we cannot know?
If you see only with your eyes, you are ignorantly blind. You are not seeing what was meant to be seen, and that is the inner workings of the person. Should you see only the clothes they wear or the way they walk, then ignorantly blind is what you are. It's a life full of emotional, mental, and spiritual pain that won't go away. Ignorance is not a real person, but it is our worst enemy.
When we connect our mind, body, heart, and soul into one, we see differently. We don't just want to see the beauty in people, but we want to see the beauty in life. Because no matter what, during your lifetime and mine, there will be people around. They will be your family, your friends, your neighbors, and your lovers. They will be whatever they want to be. And why should our ignorance stop them from being themselves. If we lead our lives without ignorance, our lives would change to include a diverse class of people, no matter what race, creed, religion, sexuality, or features they may have. We can learn something new from everyone.
Let go of what other people think and think for yourself. It's been a long life with clouded thoughts all ready. Start tomorrow being yourself and seeing everyone else as themselves. It's could be as easy or as hard as you want to make it. Here's an exercise for you: Walk down the busiest street in your town. Look in no particular direction, keeping your eyes shifting left and right, looking straight ahead. Find a person who seems different to you. Get a good visual of that person. Try to come up in your mind what that person is like. What they must think everynight when they go to bed. Why they walk like they do and they swagger like you don't. Who would be a friend of there's? Do they even have friends?
Did you come up with an answer? Well, lose it. Discard it and never think of it again. Because you are, and always will be, completely wrong. You have failed the exercise. And that is what ignorantly blind is. A daily exercise that cannot be passed with any form of study, research, or findings. It's one of the few exercises in life that on paper would have one question and no answer. The answer will always be wrong.
Do not take that exercise and never answer that question. If you can do that, then you have passed the beginning of your real test. What do you get? You don't get a million dollars, a new car, or a grand mansion. What you do get is the priceless feeling of being worldly. Of being yourself.
"Religion is a way to direct ourselves", contributed by Alerin
It seems to me that the single largest topic of debate for a wiccan practitioner is simply "what's the deal with Christianity and Wicca?" As an outsider (and I know I'm going to upset some people) I see Wicca, as a religion, constantly comparing itself to Christianity. In fact, I see more and more people trying to combine the two (myself included) because they question their faith, but don't want to abandon it. I can honestly tell you, Christians 99% of the time are not worried about what any other religion thinks, or how they stack up.
So why do we do it? We do it because, deep down inside of us, we think we may not be doing the right thing. Now that is a statement! What IS the right thing? I'll put your hearts at ease by saying that Christianity is not the right thing. It's trying, but have you ever sat in on a service and watched the congregation mouth the beautiful prayers with little to no emotion? What is right about that?
So what is the right thing to do? What is the proper way to worship? This is the part where you have to listen close: it's whatever you believe in your heart to be true. Now I'm not claiming to be absolutely right on this one! I'm human, and am born to screw up. This is just what "I" believe. So now comes the question of what to believe. I'll tell you what I've come to believe, but I am not saying this is the way it has to be for everyone.
Religion is a way for us to direct ourselves. In whatever form we worship, we follow set guidelines and follow set paths, even Wiccan. And every religion has some undeniable proof that they are correct in their worship. Christianity has Jesus and the power of prayer, Islam has Mohammed and again, prayer. Buddhists number in the billions, so something has to be working there. Wiccans have their magick, as did Egyptians. And there's Voodoo, Native American, any number of them, all with claims of supernatural help or a reasonable facsimile. I am of a mind to think that God (he/she/them/it) is up there, and wants all of His people to be with Him, but can't force the minds of mankind to follow one path (remember the "free will" clause) so He makes himself available to everyone in a way they can relate to.
So that is what I believe. So what does that mean, for me? Do I just adopt all religions? Heck no! My mind couldn't do all that. There are too many contradictions out there. So what I do is call to mind all that I believe in, and I make my own personal service to God. I thank Him, praise Him, ask for His forgiveness, invite Him into my circle, break fast with Him and as for His help. Please, don't read anything into my "male" address of Him. It's how I was raised, and it's how I feel comfortable talking to Him.
So this is my advice, in case you care to hear it. Find out what you believe in, and know in your hearts that it's right and good, and that that is the way YOU want to worship God, or the Goddess, or whomever. Don't knock anyone for being naive ('cause they're not) or for having a certain faith. How is that healing the world? Embrace each other, for as Wiccans I think you have taken the next step in a long journey, and should celebrate who you are and what you do, and not worry about what others think. God (I think) doesn't have any use for fear, doubt or worry. He just wants you ... may humility and compassion guide you on your journey.
Alerin
"Wrapped up in Pseudo Reality", Contributed by Crone Mosh
This MIGHT be off subject. I hope not.
How many of you look at the mags at the check out counters? I mean many are REAL mindless. Which would be ok if it were entertaining, but it's not. I'll read *Archie* before I'll read anything else. (I remember once I sang a Simpsons song at the check out. Got alot of guarded looks. No doubt they thought I was dotting.) (Oh, the song, or what I remember of it: "Who keeps the metric system down....Who keeps Atlantis off the maps, who keeps the martians under wraps, We Do! We Do! Who robs crayfish of their sight, who rigged every oscar night, we do! we do!")
Anyway, like the *National Enquirer*. I mean most people I was aware of in High School would have been embarrassed to be caught so superficial and gossipy. (Although many in school avoided me, so I *did* miss alot of them). And keep in mind that I was generally viewed with suspicion for being smart.
(I LOVED that scened in the Simpsons where Lisa talks to a crab and calls it "a crustacean", and all her new friends look at her with narrowed eyes and one says, "that sounds like a school word!" "Uh, oh, no, I learned it on Baywatch".--Hey, that IS an exageration, yet it dealt with something that I had a real hard time with. On the other hand, when a nasty teacher verbally gave a boy a hard time, I did her stupid descriptive p-aragraph on the spot that described what a hypocrital stupid b---- she was, but not naming names. Everyone knew what I was doing, and she did too but didn't want to admit to it. That boy thanked me after class for that, even though he had always looked down on me before. Ooops, I'm WAY off now. I'll make this tangient into its own paragraph too, in addition to in paranthesis.)
And the Columbine shootings? All the rags there talked about how horrible teen music, video games, movies, etc. was. Yet what was on the cover of the National Enquirer at the very same time? "Sex, Drugs, and Murder--the BEST of Hollywood!" One guy pointed that out sarcastically in a joke and got the dagger eyes from many around him.
But what I'm getting to is the MINDSET. What people are looking for seems to be prevalent. WHY? Why do people care about all that stuff? I mean I really don't get it. (And I get confused when I hear of it as a "kid trait". Hey, kids are *suppose* to be immature, so what's everyone else's excuse?) (Oh yea, from the MAD web site, of definitions: 1. Teenager--a person that acts like a child when not treated like an adult". Hey, I know it's got to be reciprocal, but reciprocal does mean both! I liked that definition.
And FD has said that many times that I got freaked with principals and counselors that it sounded to her that they were TRYING to get me riled and act that way, for example when I was talking calmly about a problem brought up by the principal and he blurts out, "Are you menstrating?" When the question confused me as it was none of his biz and I kept talking, he kept needling me in other ways and then when I finally started cussing him out he said "that's why you need psychiatric help.")
Oh hey, I better get off now! I keep going off on these tangients.
The question: Not why do some ask for magick wishes to make their lives as perfect and easy as some vapid sitcome TV show, but WHY are so many people wrapped up in all that psuedo reality to begin with, whether or not they're witches?
